The Guardian interviews Blizzard’s Paul Sams
A few bits that jump out:
Paul Sams of Blizzard says in the Guardian that
Globally, around 10% of WoW players are women whereas historically for this genre it was around 2%.
Whoa, that’s way off.
In games in general in the mid-90s, it was around 2-5%.
In UO we saw 10-15%, I seem to recall.
In EQ, I believe the number was around there as well, thought slightly lower.
In MUSHes and other social virtual worlds, we have seen as high as 50%, and even higher in some cases.
10% is actually a slightly low figure, and I am a bit surprised.
to create WoW the costs were such that the game is in the top three of the most expensive games ever made. That means tens of millions of dollars.
Ah, the endless debate. Earlier, there were some figures released somewhere that indicated around $60m. I have heard figures as high as over $100m “all in” including marketing and infrastructure.
To build a market as big as WoW you would have to have a well established and talented team and a franchise you can wrap it around that is well known and has global appeal. The bar is now too high.
Even Blizzard thinks that you shouldn’t make another WoW. Of course, it’s to their advantage to say so… 😉
27 Responses to “The Guardian interviews Blizzard’s Paul Sams”
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BTW, Nick Yee shows WoW female population at 16%, and EQ’s at 19%, via his surveys and external sources. Just more data to toss into the mix on that issue.
16% seems a lot closer to what I see; I’d have guessed 20% but would have accepted higher since I don’t play the a/s/l game. I’d like to know where they get their data from. Or is the key word here “Globally”?
Keep in mind that he said globally. About half of WoW’s players are in China, which might still be heavily male-dominated. This means that 16% could be come closer to 10%. But, yeah, other games have done much better, even hardcore Meridian 59 attracted a reasonable number of females.
My thoughts,
[…] Comments […]
“We’ve appealed to non hardcore gamers who want the depth of play and excitement that these games offer but without the barriers to entry normally found.”
haha. i wonder what dictionary he learned the definitions of “without” and “barriers” from. 60 levels of grinding (or static questing), and countless hours of dungeon raiding = without barriers?
right.
Interesting, did I read that right, he actually plays WOW?
You’re right, Brian — I would imagine that the demographics differ significantly by territory. When I was consulting in China last year, I was told that the female market was inconsequential. It looks like there are some efforts to change that (e.g. NCsoft’s Alterlife), but I don’t know how successful they’ve been.
Nick Yee’s studies demonstrate that female players are more valuable than male players — if you believe his self-selected data, it says that they play longer, are more likely to have multiple accounts, and are more likely to be the hubs of social networks. They generate more revenue. Tell that to your producer when he says that pursuing the female market is a waste of time.
[…] The Guardian interviews Blizzard’s Paul Sams on Raph Koster The Guardian interviews Blizzard’s Paul Sams on Raph Koster A few bits that jump out: Paul Sams of Blizzard says in the Guardian that Globally, around 10% of WoW players are women whereas historically for this genre it was around 2%. Whoa, that’s way off. In games in general in the mid-90s, it was around 2-5%. In UO we saw 10-15%, I seem to recall. In EQ, I believe the […] via Raph Koster […]
Sure, the place is always packed on Ladies’ Night.
I wonder how they know that the number of female players is 10% of the total? I don’t recall ever having been asked my gender when I signed up.
Richard
Just a question about MMO costs. How much of that $60 -> $100 million would be the infrastucture (hardware, network and upkeep) and how much is the game (code, art etc)?
Thanks
I’m with Richard on that one … although I wonder if some sort of reasonable estimate can be made on the basis of CC info tied to the account?
It’s hard to judge in the case of WoW, because they spent so much time in sheer polish; polish time is expensive because you incur the burn of a full team for lengthy periods.
But generally speaking, the biggest expense will be the art, including the worldbuilding. WoW has quite a lot of it.
I was just thinking. If the upcoming Stargate: Worlds game (or even Star Trek Online) happens to be exceptionally well done and is advertised well, it’s very possible that their subscriber numbers could come close to challenging WoW. For the following reasons:
1. It’s sci-fi and not tolkien-style fantasy, which is a subgenre that is not nearly as saturated.
2. Both are very strong mass media franchises with large followings.
3. I pick on Stargate in particular here because the franchise lends itself really well to MMO world building, with the gates and ring platforms being the perfect vehicle for zones and instancing.
Basically, if the folks making these two games can manage to equal WoW’s fun factor and level of polish at release, they stand a very good chance of getting a large subscriber base. Add in the TV and internet advertising, and millions of subscribers is not something that’s out of reach, I think.
So lets break this down into 3 keys to success for MMO’s;
– A Popular Franchise
– A Well Established, Talented Team; or a WETT, lol.
Let’s start with franchise:
I can think of numerous franchises that would support a player base the size of WoW’s or larger. The only thing required of these franchises would be broad appeal to create interest in it, and a well known universe
-Star Wars
-Pokemon
-Lord of the Rings
-Conan
-Super Mario
-Zelda
-Transformers
-Marvel
-DC
-Camelot
-Dune
The list goes on. Notice that many of these have been done…or are being done. I think the industry is WELL AWARE that a popular franchise can help with success.
Now the Well established talented team (WETT)…
Well I suppose that is the “Make or break” part of the equation, but I wouldn’t say that the bar is “too high” that’s just a bit cocky =)
I don’t actually agree with WETT. We have seen successes from teams that were not well-established and instead succeeded on their first try — Eve & EQ come to mind.
Instead, I’d identify a commitment to quality as being a key factor; holding the game to polish it. And this means spending money.
Well, blizzard themselves had to come from somewhere. As I recall they had a few games before there hit, “Warcraft RTS”.
I think some companies/developers do have a certain prestige associated with them, meaning with that studio emblem come an increase in initial sales.
Valve, Sid Meir, Will Wright, Nintendo all have a sort of “following”, similar to Blizzards. I suppose the correlation of polish is key, because all these studios/developers tend to produce consistently polished games. That is not to say, upstart studios can’t make good/successful/polished, games.
EVE, is a real accomplishment because after they dropped their producer they still flourished. It also has a very pretty UI, beautiful graphics, and excellent guild (corp) support. And the Polish still flows freely even now. CCP has done an amazing thing with that game. EVE is one of the testaments that you can take the WE out of WETT and have a great MMO.
But as you have talked about MMO life cycles, I think for a non-j-curve MMO, anything that will increase the size of the initial player base is absolutely necessary.
*EDIT*
I meant to say, EVE dropped their publisher.
Spell check just isnt enough sometimes.
Oveur would likely be quite upset to learn that he was dropped 🙂
Thats the key differentiator in any endeavour, the quality does not have to be as good initially (see myspace vs friendster) but there should be a vocal and transparent commitment to keep improving. This is why myspace smoked friendster, a site that had easier usability and a better interface.
Does it take a WETT? or just a TT with commitment? I’ll have to agree EvE is pretty dam cool….
Star Trek better try marketing the game to non-trek fans, I think theres been some misconceptions about the overlap of ST fans and MMO players.
I am just wondering, from a game industry perspective when someones pitching some idea, does the logic go: “pokemon has a lot of consumers, ergo they will want to play the pokemon game, and thus we will make $$$” so lets spend 20m to find out? because as a gamer I can say what I consume is not necessarily what I want to play as a game.
My primary concern as a gamer is this: How much will this world (franchise if you must) engage me?
So lets look at the list:
-Star Wars (yes)
-Pokemon (not 37 year old males)
-Lord of the Rings (maybe, how about I can play an orc? PVP where art thou? I don’t recall ever having been asked my gender when I signed up
Problem solved
I’d also posit that 10% is a safe estimate on female players, likly a margin of error there between 1-2%. Does Nicks demographic data come from self identified gender via his survey’s? or is it female avatar population via thier in game PARK measurements?
Sara-
Just curious: Were you told that from the perspective of measured revenue streams or from a cultural male dominated bias? Either way as an emergent nation where consumer buying power is increasing (Im unsure on the differential between males/females however) I’d think they might want to capture the female market as well.
eek my post was amputated! Theres the rest…
?
?not in the game being released, thus no PVP crowd)
-Conan Yeah, they got my money, even more importantly they got the console players money too!, if they want them
-Super Mario eh?
Zelda Nope
-Transformers nope
Marvel Maybe
DC Maybe
Camelot Maybe
Dune Definately if done right
My engagement level is biased toward 37 year old males. Take 20 years off my age and my engagement demands will likely change as will my genre of world preferances. I may have bought zelda for my daughter, which makes me a consumer of the zelda franchise, but I wont be buying the game
During my time in SWG, My wife and I ran into quite a few Real life Females playing the game, Also it was the one game that was relatively easy to talk your wife/Girlfriend/sister into playing. The opportunities for non-combat related fun were ample: You could show them the fun of trying to get that cabinet that everyone has in their house, to look like an atrium, fish tank, whatever….you could show them the entertainer professions and they could have fun putting together a wildly sexy twi’lek or dancing Fish, and the most popular among our female friends was the Creature Handler, “you mean I can get a bunch of those cute little bunny things that will kill at my command?!”
The point is customer diversity means appealing to more than the casual gamer sensibilities and allowing people to make the game what they want to make it. This may not necessarily appeal to the typical gamer, and you may NOT be able to draw WOW type of numbers, but in time you may be able to draw people into gaming that weren’t into it before….and that can lend itself to longevity, at least in my opinion.
Allen:
If I remember correctly, I just asked how many women play online games in China, and they said they were so rare, the market wasn’t worth pursuing. It was about a year and a half ago, so things may have improved.
Interesting. Thank’s the reason Im asking is that lately I’ve been interested in capturing specific data points for women gamers, Im just wondering how well this effort translates internationally, as there is a cost associated with translation and etc.
Raph wrote:
Allen wrote:
Quality is a customer expectation and rarely serves as a factor of differentiation unless complemented by, for example, leadership. Generally, loss of quality is not visibly and negatively impacting over the short term, but loss of quality over the long term does correlate to loss of market share and/or diminished share value. Because quality is a customer expectation, businesses rarely can compete on quality; however, investing in quality does enable businesses to keep their feet in the fray.
I wonder why Rockstar, with the IP, the deep pockets, the talent, hasn’t stepped up with a GTA MMO. I can’t see another IP out there with the potential to break out of the box created by WoW, but somehow they haven’t taken the initiative. That leaves it to David Jones with Real Time Worlds to produce APB, which of course will have to seal the deal without the advantage of a name-recognition IP. Strange to me that Rockstar would leave that opportunity on the table to be scooped up by another developer.