Spelled M-A-N

 Posted by (Visited 5756 times)  Music
Jun 022008
 

Bo Diddley, dead at 79.

A basic heartbeat of rock ‘n’ roll.

  15 Responses to “Spelled M-A-N”

  1. Morgan Ramsay says:
    June 2, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall of Fame wrote:

    This distinctive, African-based … rhythm pattern was picked up by other artists and has been a distinctive and recurring element in rock ‘n’ roll through the decades.

    How can something be “African-based”? Are we talking about genetic engineering?

    Nevermind that. The root of much of “African-American culture” in America today is not African, but Scottish Gaelic. That includes blues, psalm singing, and rock.

    Leave it to the Noisemakers Hall of Fame to get their facts wrong.

    Bo Diddley wrote:

    I don’t like to copy anybody. Everybody tries to do what I do, update it. I don’t have any idols I copied after. … They copied everything I did, upgraded it, messed it up. It seems to me that nobody can come up with their own thing, they have to put a little bit of Bo Diddley there.

    Diddley had one heck of an ego.

  2. Raph says:
    June 2, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    The root of much of “African-American culture” in America today is not African, but Scottish Gaelic. That includes blues, psalm singing, and rock.

    Whoa. Got some references? Or are you speaking of the Appalachian tradition?

    Diddley had one heck of an ego.

    Little question of that…! If you listen to his songs, it’s even more clear. 🙂

  3. Eolirin says:
    June 2, 2008 at 7:34 pm

    … Are you seriously trying to say that there’s no music that originated in Africa? No rythmic patterns that are uniquely rooted in African tribal music?

    Not necessarily saying that this was the case here, but your dismissal of it seems to indicate that it could not possibly be the case in any situation.

  4. Morgan Ramsay says:
    June 2, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    Raph wrote:

    Whoa. Got some references?

    “We as black Americans have lived under a misconception. Our cultural roots are more Black Gaelic than Black American. Just look at the Harlem phone book, it’s more like the book for North Uist. I have been to Africa many times in search of my cultural identity, but it was in the Highlands that I found the cultural roots of black America.” — Willie Ruff, ethnomusicologist at Yale University.

    Indian, Black Gospel and Scottish Singing Form an Unusual Musical Bridge

    Black America’s musical links to Scotland

    Black music from Scotland? It could be the gospel truth

    Eolirin wrote:

    Are you seriously trying to say that there’s no music that originated in Africa? No rythmic patterns that are uniquely rooted in African tribal music?

    You have a sickness. You want to argue with everything I say, and when I don’t say something, you imagine me saying something that you can argue against.

  5. Morgan Ramsay says:
    June 2, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    I wrote:

    How can something be “African-based”? Are we talking about genetic engineering? … Leave it to the Noisemakers Hall of Fame to get their facts wrong.

    Funny. I was given a huge book on the history of music in the context of guitar yesterday. I was perusing the book after I posted the above and found a chapter devoted to “African.” Apparently, there’s actually a style of music just called African, and the word as used by the Noisemakers Hall of Fame probably refers to that style and not to “African” meaning “a person from Africa.”

  6. Eolirin says:
    June 3, 2008 at 8:29 pm

    Morgan, don’t go there. It’s not even remotely true. I really couldn’t care less about you or arguing with you. I only care about what’s being said. I’ve even agreed with you a number of times, even when there wasn’t any other support because I thought you were right. I’m only here because I care about *ideas* and *concepts*. The people they’re attached to don’t matter at all. We just happen to see things in fairly different ways, and that causes lots of conflicting views. Neither of us are willing to let go of things, so we clash over it.

    But I can very clearly illustrate why I said what I did up there, and why it *was* relevant and not an attempt to twist your words but rather a lack of understanding as to why you were saying them in the first place.

    It’s because of what you just discovered: It’s a style, and you seemed to be suggesting that it *couldn’t* be a style. African based immediately came across to me as speaking of a style of music, because I see it as an adjective, like “African Wildlife” or “African Tribal Customs”, or… “African Music”, and not as refering to people in general, and that’s why I responded as such. The assumption that it was being used that way is so ingrained that I wouldn’t have been able to make the jump to seeing that you didn’t make the same connection until I saw your reply. From my position, what you said made no sense at all, and my questions about unique African music were because I had already couched the word in terms of musical style, assumed you did too, and then saw you wondering how that could be. Those questions give basis to “African based” music. But I’m not you, I don’t know how you think or what context bits we don’t have in common. It didn’t occur to me that you could have meant anything else, because the words didn’t mean anything else to *me*; I misunderstood you because of it.

  7. Morgan Ramsay says:
    June 3, 2008 at 10:07 pm

    Eolirin wrote:

    It didn’t occur to me that you could have meant anything else, because the words didn’t mean anything else to *me*; I misunderstood you because of it.

    “African-based” still sounds weird to me. That’s like saying “American-based” or “European-based” and, as I hinted, sounds more related to genetic engineering than music. Is labelling an entire continent’s wide range of musical styles with a single label even fair and accurate? Another annoying phrase that I hear a lot in southern California is “they speak Mexican.” *sigh* And then there’s the word “Indian” used as though there isn’t a country called India and many different American tribes.

    I’ve even agreed with you a number of times …

    Only when we’ve agreed to disagree! 😉

  8. Eolirin says:
    June 4, 2008 at 1:25 am

    I can understand that it sounds weird to you, and that’s fine. It didn’t to me, and I didn’t expect it to for you. Now that I know, no problem.

    But not true on us agreeing! 😛

    Take a closer look at the Players Who Attack Pirate Servers comment thread 😛

    I even agreed with your overall point that combining marketing with community forums was a *good* idea, I just felt you were oversimplifying the difficulties involved. Hell, even in the GTA thread I agreed with half the stuff you were saying, and I was even trying to be explicit about that fact, I just vehemently disagreed with the other half. 😉

    Honestly, half the time I’m more arguing that you’re missing certain elements than I am that you’re actually *wrong* about the overall picture. I worry over details, it’s a bit of a flaw in some respects. But go back and look at my actual comments, you’ll see me agreeing with some point that you’ve made even when I’m disagreeing strongly about something else just about *every* time 😛

  9. Kerri Knight says:
    June 4, 2008 at 3:35 am

    Despite maintaining a strong sense of ethnic identity, African-Americans were generations (if not centuries) removed from the continent of Africa before modern rock came about and before Bo Diddley did….okay, I’ll pass on the pun.

    Calling it ‘African’ is just more ethnocentricism that we don’t need in this country.

    Great talent, I’m sure he has those whom he loved and was loved by…the rest means so little.

  10. len says:
    June 4, 2008 at 6:16 am

    American music is as much European harmonic systems over Harlem beats as it is plainsong over African beats.

    It only makes a difference to someone making a case for something that has nothing to do with the music.

    And people who do that don’t know ‘diddley’.

    The truth is rock ‘n roll, jazz and blues are all museum music at this point in their evolution. It doesn’t mean they are dead. They just smell funny.

  11. Ola Fosheim Grøstad says:
    June 4, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Folk-music tends to be somewhat international, you’ll find similiarities even where there has been no contact whatsoever. Music is an international multi-faceted language where ideas flow around the globe and I don’t think it is wise to trace traditions along a single dimension. There is no conflict between music belonging to both European and African traditions. Most popular music does, after all. (add Asia for the psychedelic genres.)

    Calling it ‘African’ is just more ethnocentricism that we don’t need in this country.

    Why can’t we let people be proud of their heritage? Is the ideal that everybody should be identity-less McDonalds worshipping droids? Does that make us happy??

    I’d say it is ‘African’ if the musician is sensitive to African roots and spirit and i’d also include music that has been used to give the Afro-American a voice. Blues,jazz and rap fits that bill (but not all blues,jazz and rap).

    And yes Morgan, both genes and history are part of the equation, few white vocalists can produce the african sounding timbre or sing of slavery convincingly. Music is more than plain style and sheets, performance and setting matters.

    Is techno and trance african because of their heavy beats? Of course not, but Kalahari Surfers produce trance with a distinct african sound. Is it African? Yes, of course it is! Is it more african when they use real african drums rather than samples? Yes, I’d say it is, even if it sounds the same.

  12. Morgan Ramsay says:
    June 4, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

    Why can’t we let people be proud of their heritage?

    I have no problem with people being “proud” of their heritage; although, you can’t necessarily be “proud” of anything you had no hand in influencing…

    I’m a fifth-generation Scottish American and a first-generation Filipino American. I know my Scottish clan history like the back of my hand, right down to how our Viking progenitor found his way from Normandy to Scotland in 1066. And even the two-pronged invasion that Norman Duke William masterminded to thoroughly wear down English King Harold’s armies, having them force march to the north to stave off Norway King Harald III and then force march to the south to fight William.

    I even know that my Viking ancestors pillaged the Scottish countryside before settling, becoming mercenaries, and then cutthroats for hire to nobility, and eventually constructing their first castle and hosting Longshanks, Mary Queen of Scots, and Oliver Cromwell. The latter, of course, laid siege to the castle first… The Ramsays have played a major role in military history and still do. To top that all off, I play a mean Celtic guitar.

    My Filipino side is a bit more mysterious since the Marcos regime seized my family’s possessions in their lust for wealth and power, and my mother is evasive about her family’s history. She doesn’t even identify the Phillipines as her homeland anymore, as she made a serious effort to relocate to the U.S. when she was in her late teens. All I really know is that her grandfather was the mayor of a small island, and the whole family lived in a big, maid-laden house with the only TV on the island. People from across the island would come to their house to feast and watch TV.

    I don’t have a problem with people looking to their heritage for inspiration, but I do have a problem with people who, in looking to their heritage in such a way, turn a blind eye to the parts they don’t like. You can’t pick and choose your history.

  13. len says:
    June 4, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    “few white vocalists can produce the african sounding timbre”

    Right. The nasal cavities are different. That’s why I’m a ‘honky’ and Melvin Franklin wasn’t. Temptations FOREVER! On the other hand, I can croon falsetto on any Eddie Kendricks remake. 🙂

    Style matters but I’ve been in plenty of bands mixed and otherwise and all that really matters is the sound, the sin and the count. “There’s only two kinds of music: Good, and Bad. I like both kinds.” – Duke Ellington.

    Morgan: so your family served with William the Bastard? Whoda thunk it? Maid-laden? Can’t touch that. This is a family blog. But the mean Celtic Guitar thing? Where are your demos? Rough tuning and real wavs…

  14. Morgan Ramsay says:
    June 4, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Morgan: so your family served with William the Bastard? Whoda thunk it? Maid-laden? Can’t touch that. This is a family blog. But the mean Celtic Guitar thing? Where are your demos? Rough tuning and real wavs…

    William the Conqueror. Conqueror of England. ;p

    I only have one track online, recorded in 2004 or 2005. Since then, I haven’t been able to bring myself to record again. There’s something about recording that just seems to sap the life from the music. Raph and I have played guitar together a few times. He can attest to my leet skillz. Isn’t that right, Raph!? >:)

    http://www.morgan-ramsay.com or http://www.fireundubh.com

  15. len says:
    June 5, 2008 at 7:09 am

    Conquering foreigners is the last resort of many a bastard who can’t find a place to be top dog at home. 😉

    The links show your website is down, Morgan. Let me know when or where I can hear your chops.

    I get to teach a songwriting course next month. I’m trying to figure out how that can be made simple. Ummm… buy a drum machine first? It’s one of those crafts that seems so simple until one has to describe it.

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